Other pilots chimed in calling him for what he was. I've gotta jump on the bandwagon in wondering "just what the heck 'Karen' was thinking" when she told the 99.9999999% of commentors on this site to get the "sticks out of their asses". IFR Deviations - This is the most common of violations that happens the . Air traffic controllers are susceptible to power trips and moods and biases, just like everyone else. Now, I hate to defend this guy because what he did was insane but i'm not so quick to pull his ticket simply because I wouldn't want my Now, I hate to defend this guy because what he did was insane but i'm not so quick to pull his ticket simply because I wouldn't want my ticket pulled if I messed up - though I wouldn't like that. With respect to my comment above (cant edit), delete the word email from the comment (next to last word). Of course that is true, but people who are suffering recent onset of dementia / tumor-induced emotional outbursts / schizophrenia etc. Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, I hereby request the following records: An electronic copy of:- any accident, investigation, pilot deviation reports, legal enforcement actions (incl suspensions, revocations and/or monetary penalties) or FSDO records (including statements or phone recordings from Las Vegas or Henderson Tower ATC regarding a possible pivot deviation on June 20, 2020 where N731NR may have entered Bravo airspace without clearance*)- from 2018-Nov-5 to present,- of owner WIFE APPROVED LLC, registration N731NR, or Jeff Wachner. Advertiser Disclosure: Some links to credit cards and other products on this website will earn an affiliate commission. Typically, as tower, I don't care about the details, I've got stuff to do. I know this Controller and she is good at her job. That award goes to the pilot of PK8303 who ignored multiple warnings about how he was too high and fast, and then tried to land with gear up before killing almost everyone on board. Your request is assigned to the office listed below: Federal Aviation Administration Contact: Amelia McGillWestern-Pacific Region (424) 405-7221Flight Standards Division, AWP-200777 S. Aviation Blvd.El Segundo, CA 90245. Pierce, April 6, 1859. Sometimes ATC attitude causes the problems. Another pilot chimes in with his thoughts. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Yes humans make mistakes, and that is why aviation has the strictest protocols outside the nuclear industry. ), Next Generation Air Transportation System (NextGen). What is more likely is ATC would instruct N1NR around Bravo. He's a danger to us all and I don't want to share the sky with him. If N1NR had requested clearance, ATC would have responded with clearance or denial and N1NR would have to confirm what was said. I look forward to receiving your response to this request within 20 business days, as the statute requires. He refuses to leave airspace even though he never had clearance to fly through it, and he refuses to take down a number because hes flying., Hopefully an investigation is done and this guy loses his license. Sincerely,Annjanette CumminsNational FOIA Coordinator for ANM, AAL & AWP RegionsFOIA Program Management Branch, AFN-400(206) 231-2034[AFN3_SignatureImage_2a]. I'm a commercial pilot and CFII. This is about aviation. He shouldnt be flying anywhere near Class B airspace if he doesnt understand the regulations. Caller - oh you might say that. Sort it out on the ground, or declare an emergency: pilot is an ass. These guys & women keep 10-20 balls in the air constantly..you think you can do better?? Me - knowing said student thought oh ##@@. She was far better to him than a lot of NY approach controllers are to good pilots on a good day (and I like NY approach, by the way). > ATC should have called the Airforce on him. This pilot should have been arrested and given a breathalyzer upon landing. Whether BR was cleared or not he was tracked and being separated. He should not even be allowed to control his own [emailprotected]. He responded rogerrrrrrrrrr. He flew into the Bravo airspace without a clearance, argued with the controller when she repeatedly told him to exit the Bravo, and continued his flight through as if he owned the airspace. For specific information, you may request a copy of . Flightaware shows he flew in from denver at 16300' level the whole way. There are reasons for the rules. "Isnt the airspace over international airports congested (and dangerous) enough without these general aviation Cesena clowns and the Harrison Fords of the world putting the rest of us at risk? I'm flying.". They also rechecked the examiner who tested him on his private he got suspended for a short time and had to recheck as a examiner. Sometimes they have multiple frequencies on the same station, so you might hear more than one controller. Commercial Pilot He risked lives at the time of this incident, and in the future if pilots aren't seriously punished for this kind of behavior. Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. Its ridiculous that youre allowed to take the control of a Cessna independently at 60-80 hours of learning. The F-15 and F-16 have to go over twice that. They don't take airspace incursions lightly, ESPECIALLY in the #8 most busy airport in the US. Not saying that he should yell at him, but apologizing seemed a bit odd. Publicado el junio 1, 2022 por junio 1, 2022 por Not a cool move on his part. She didn't offer a heading or instruction to resolve the issue. Id. I know what he did was wrong but I understand his frustration. N731NR (angrily): "I'm not ready to copy. The FARs couldn't be more clear on this situation. I think by "Airforce" [sic] you're thinking of all those movies you've seen. N1NR answers back that "he's flying". The belligerent behavior of the pilot with the controller and the sound of his voice makes me wonder if this might have been suffering from mild hypoxia. This kind of thing gets people killed. https://cdn.muckrock.com/foia_files/2020/09/15/FLM1_Phone_Call_N731NR_-_Redacted.wav. Secure .gov websites use HTTPS Unfortunately, that's not what happened. I fly in the busy Chicago airspace as a private pilot and the vast majority of Private pilots are as professional as the air transport pilots, and are often much less complacent in and around the class B and class C airspace. Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. Always IFR but I still remember feeling like a pain in the ass for asking for VFR service from a controller having a bad day. Anyway, a video has just been uploaded of an interaction between an air traffic controller and a pilot over the skies of Las Vegas on June 20, 2020. Result - IP and my Mom who normally ran the business in Dads absence got back at the same time. At the point you're referring to he was a FREAKING IDIOT who SHOULD LOSE HIS CERT violating airspace. Looks like we found the co-owner of Wife Approved, LLC. Keep up the anti-mask bs. The recording indicates a few things going on: sounded like a rough flight, pilot's kid threw up, perhaps he had his hands full. Even if you dont have a good understanding of ATC terminology, the situation should be easy enough to make sense of. However, this data alone does not provide the basis for a determination regarding the. like this one. I thought I was cleared, I have an ill 6 year old on board. Flying his bird may get a lot less pleasant REAL fast. Get the stick out of your asses. > Word of caution: the owner of the aircraft is easily found, and plenty of information is out there. This guy is a real threat to himself and others. Note that the question does NOT ask: > When ATC has you call them for pilot deviation you have made, what do they say on the phone? Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. But Id recommend against posting it, even if that person turns out to be the idiot in question. What else could you expect? The Original Donna: Class Bravo & Charlie airspace requires certain verbal permission to fly in/out/ and through it, but you have basic lack of understanding when it comes to the airspace system I fear. So to appease the pilot and keep him from rattling off more sob story on frequency, he just smiles and waves. - hold until otherwise instructed This will come out in time. There are published VFR approaches and having flowing the west side "water tower" I know they're trivial. How much you want to bet this pilot is one of the people who refuse to wear a mask? The information contained in this record should be the most current Airworthiness information available in the historical aircraft record. The ONLY reason aviation is the safest form of transportation is precisely because everything is taken so seriously. 1) Probably not hypoxia. Again, not a good decision. This guy might just be the most negligent pilot ever in terms of how he ignores instructions. I'm a Retired LAS Controller. Always good to receive a reminder that your pilot may be a nut case and we can just hope we never find out if s/he is or not. Best Flight Tracker: Live Tracking Maps, Flight Status, and Airport Delays for airline flights, private/GA flights, and airports. Must have been a Kennedy. I was interested in being a Pilot but it shocks me how awful other pilots can be, they even revert to ganging up or saying a terrible thing because of a mistake another pilot made as if they "the great one" has never made a mistake in their life. She kept phoning her father, a MD in LA and complaining about her mistreatment and threatening everybody with lawsuits. However he failed to descend below the inner ring, that ring starts at 4500 ft MSL and goes up to 10000 ft MSL. Bravo airspace, like Ben said, is the airspace around major airports in the country. We are going to explain what pilot deviation is in this article, and how serious this violation can be for you. Airborne deviations can result when pilots stray from an assigned, heading, altitude, or instrument procedure, or if they penetrate controlled or restricted airspace without ATC clearance. Doing so erodes hand flying skills which is evident in the last phase of his flight. First of all, I've never gotten one, and don't plan to get one. Your feedback is important in helping us keep our community safe. If you should have any trouble viewing this email or the attachment, please notify us immediately. Me - no sir back in aprox 20mts. The owner of that plane holds a Commercial Pilot Certificate. This isnt a slap on the wrist type of offense. Whats with the last controller sounding like he is appeasing this dude, instead of trusting the previous controller. Looks like he was below 6000 the whole time. Ah, Karen. Or the one over Cerritos in 1986?". Student then bought a old Grumen Float plane thinking he would used it to fly back and forth to his lake home. I.E "whatever you say, dude" This pilot came in over Lake Meade under the class B which requires no ATC clearance to operate an aircraft. I once ate spices in the Old City. It appears this pilot got sloppy without realizing he got sloppy. As promised, the final portion of the FOIA response concerning N731NR (the guy who busted Las Vegas class B). Thanks. Yes humans make mistakes, and that is why aviation has the strictest protocols outside Oh my gosh! Good job on hitting a new high USA! I've gotta jump on the bandwagon in wondering "just what the heck 'Karen' was thinking" when she told the 99.9999999% of commentors on this site to get the "sticks out of their asses". The magic words that should raise the hairs on the back of your neck are "possible pilot deviation." It goes without saying that you should remain vigilant as you fly around the national. My local airport is RDU. "Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not forthemselves, and under a just God, cannot long retain it. Harrison Ford is an accomplished pilot that made the same sort of mistake that many Commercial ATP pilots have made setting up for the wrong runway or taxiway etc. - claiming he got auth when he didn't Thank you for your pointing out you're anti-USA and somehow a pilot incursion into Class Bravo airspace has to do with "anti-mask BS". ATC: "N1NR, possible pilot deviation, advise to contact Las Vegas approach. He did request a clearance. You don't get to tar the rest of us with his brush. This letter acknowledges receipt of your FOIA request dated May 27, 2020, regarding any accident, investigation, pilot deviation reports, legal enforcement actions, or FSDO records, regarding a possible pivot deviation on June 20, 2020 where N731NR may have entered Bravo airspace without clearance. The best way to ensure that you do not get in any trouble is to stay vigilant, follow the rules, and file a report if you know that an error has occurred on your behalf. I'm only going this way because something in his demeanor smells like something else is at play. Yeah, this whole sick daughter thing sounds like so much after action excuse making. Have you ever said That's a terrible thing to say, that a pilot should lose his license. I dont see any defense to his behavior. For more information, please see our Doxing is not right. I'd like to know more about the outcome. Editorial Disclosure: The editorial content on this page is not provided by any entity mentioned herein. N731NR: "Vegas Approach, Centurion 731NR with you descending through 5700'"LAS: "1NR, Las Vegas Approach, Las Vegas altimeter, 29.88. He was wrong in what he did but I had to voice this opinion. In other words, his head was so far up his ass Anarchists on the ground, anarchists in the air. There are riots. "N731NR (angrily): "I'm not ready to copy. I, at times, if the weather is good enough, cancelled IFR..continuing on my own. I didn't hear anything that I didn't find out of line. Karen Mosley apparetly is clueless about aviation. Not buying the sick daughter excuse. I remember many times that pilots would argue with me about instructions. People get frustrated in the air just like they do in cars and dont get their license suspended. When the controller said he was not cleared to enter the class B he probably thought he wasn't in the class B and after his 1st conversation is when he probably noticed he was off altitude because he made a quick decent to 4000 ft. His next run in is when he cut the corner of the center ring which is from the ground to 10000 ft MSL. Otherwise he'll have his license yanked in *very* short order. That's a terrible thing to say, that a pilot should lose his license. I love listening to air traffic control audio, either just live, or recordings of interesting interactions. This incident is recorded as all radio communications between planes and ATC are definitely recorded as a matter of public record:https://onemileatatime.com/atc-audio-negligent-pilot/. 2021.4.14.1400. ). However he failed to descend below the inner ring, that ring starts at 4500 ft MSL and goes up to 10000 ft MSL. The Cessna P210N stall speed is 67 knots. "Abraham Lincoln, letter to H.L. I was a center controller and am now retired. The problem is with dangerous attitude. Most aircraft are owned by a business, a corporation, a leasing company, or someone who rents their aircraft out. She kept phoning her father, a MD in LA and complaining about her mistreatment and threatening everybody with lawsuits. He flew right across the ILS approach glideslope to LAS 26 after he was told to vacate Bravo airspace recklessly endangering multiple lives. Time for this jerk to buy a ticket on Southwest and shut up. I suggested they speak with the father and ask him if perhaps, she was a spoiled B. Nobody in Vegas is "allergic to rules." He let his situational awareness slip, not a good thing. He busted that test and they pulled his ticket. However, unless you are in a Class A airspace, a pilot is allowed to cancel an IFR flight plan if the operation is being conducted in VFR weather conditions. Happens every day, but not usually with the drama that this knucklehead exhibited A few weeks ago a commercial pilot blew through the O'hare Bravo - ATC kept trying to gently help him by repeating the local altimeter reading thinking he might check his altitude by the 3rd time he offered it, but eventually just had to notify the errant pilot and provide him with a phone # to call. LOL this is probably the same guy that registered the aircraft to WIFE APPROVED LLC. (i.e. 2) If he claims some kind of medical condition, goodbye medical certificate. He just flat out refused. When you have 2 F-16s or 2 F-15s escorting you that should bring sense into your head faster than having the nerve to argue. Visit a tracon JUST ONCE. The FAA should (and probably will) commence an emergency revocation of the pilot's certificate. You might get hypoxic if you fly right over Class B at 10000 or above. This notice provides new procedures for investigating pilot deviations (PD), and completing FAA Form 8020-18, Investigation of Pilot Deviation Report by certificate-holding district offices (CHDO), Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO), and certificate management offices (CMO) with oversight of air carrier operators certificated under Sometimes, when major airports are busy, they ban transitions through their airspace, in which case you have to either: - route around, under, or above the relevant airspace > Nobody gives a f*. Researching this pilot's flight with FlightAware and Flightradar24 a much clearer picture emerges. If you read what I wrote with an open mind and still think I have a stick up my ass, go read up on Kobe Bryant the basketball legend no longer with us because someone buckaroo'd it. U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Aviation Administration 800 Independence Avenue, SW Washington, DC 20591 1-866-TELL-FAA (1-866-835-5322) twitter.com/journo_anon Public Records Requester. Outside of banner ads published through the Boarding Area network, this compensation does not impact how and where products appear on this site. Get the stick out of your asses". Keep up the anti-mask bs. But if it was just a misjudgment, and we all make those from time to time, the appropriate response would be to simply apologize to the Controller, then get out. Cut off a commercial airline at the beginning of his short final resulting in a missed approach and go round for him. When approach calls tower about a deviation, they may or may not give details. Im an air traffic controller in a class B airspace (one of the 8 US airports busier than LAS) and I have to admit that Im occasionally underwhelmed by the services that my coworkers are willing to provide; how unenthusiastic they can be about working a little harder to allow a VFR aircraft to enter the airspace. This pilot penatrated that airspace at what appears to have been approximately 4800. Share sensitive information only on official, secure websites. Either that, or "Karen" is the "wife" this aircraft is registered to in "Wife Approved LLC". I was interested in being a Pilot but it shocks me how awful other pilots can be, they even revert to ganging up or saying a terrible thing because of a mistake another pilot made as if they "the great one" has never made a mistake in their life. I wonder if they're aware of how much exposure this has in the pilot community. This leads me to believe that a medical problem or hypoxia or something like that might (emphasis, _might__) have been a factor. Did anyone ever find out what happened to this pilot? It will get figured out. No request for Bravo clearance is heard.While it is not known what N1NR said in the last exchange, this is the nature of radio communications as some transmissions do not go through. It is quite apparent that the pilot is well versed in being an a**hole. Sometimes ATC attitude causes the problems. This guy intentionally violated it, then took up ATC's time fighting about it. While working on my instrument rating and flying in and out of Midway airport I heard dozens of Southwest pilots being human, and missing instructions, blowing through airspeed restrictions, among other FAR violations and getting dressed down by ATC when they goofed up. - attitude, attitude, attitude, and I'm not talking about the aircraft. You should be ashamed. Stay connected with the latest travel, aviation, and credit card news. Im flying.. On Reddit they doxed him.