It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. Reports without physical evidence are not dismissed, however Fish and Game cannot verify a sighting report without physical evidence. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. I think that you probably are. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. Deer Bear Moose Wolves Fisher Mountain Lions. Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. I can't. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. And it's not really strong. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. Want to report a Mountain Lion sighting in New Hampshire? We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. I'm Peter B yellow. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. Thank you very much for listening. Patrick Tate: So I'm not sure what subspecies of cat they're using to differentiate by those markings but once she was describing the White other face in the black. Today she talked with us a little bit before the show about why the mountain line is so compelling and why we want it to be part of our world. I'm Peter Biello in for Laura NOI. But but I've also seen it cited the opposite way that look they're very secretive. The current estimate is 2,000 - 2,700 throughout Arizona. Well let's talk a little bit about that. Here it is. Give today. I don't know if she still is. Numerous scat and fur specimens have been turned in as part of mountain lion report investigations; DNA identification has shown these submitted samples to be from domestic dog, coyote, bobcat andraccoon. Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. So I did a bunch of research and all the documentation I found was there art are not any pieces of DNA of Eastern online. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. nh.gov | privacy policy | accessibility policy Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. BRADFORD, N.H. - All that snow in parts of the Northeast has more than just kids jumping for winter joy. Have it reported down in the Keene area. I would just suggest that in my experience as a reporter covering this covering this issue for a few years at least at what point do we reach a certain critical mass for lack of a better term of accounts where I'm not to suggest that you guys aren't taking this possibility seriously. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. And they used to be this whole list of the different subspecies of mountain lion and it has since been reduced to just to the North American and the South American. So they're scary. I just saw the head and the tail that was leaving. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. So one thing that I find fascinating about this Connecticut cat was six months between the New York situation where they found evidence of it too when it was hit by a motor vehicle. Right. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. Some are included in lists of mountains, such as the Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC) list of the Hundred Highest peaks of New England, or the . People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. No that's a little bit outside the range. So we tossed these terms around but really the term subspecies has been sort of redefined in our lifetimes. Information online ad an age student loans dawg. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. Right. Thanks for taking my call. Why are there so many false positives? We're going to talk a little bit more about habitat first but then we'll get into sightings. Think you've seen a mountain lion. Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. Caller: Are probably. So so in 2011 a mountain lion was killed in a car accident in Connecticut a car hit a mountain lion and killed it. This is where things start breaking down when you so I get pictures with this great description and one of my favorite stories is a great description what the witness and then so I called the witness and wanted information from them and the person says What are you talking about. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. How far were you from this cat. Gotcha, so the Deep State is suppressing mountain lion news in order to prop up New Hampshire tourism? People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. Part II. And they were using all the habitat. Chartered: 1973 . Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. Is that typically what was happening there. Do you want to see real, living mountain lions that do exist in New Hampshire. Thank you. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. NHFG Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate identifies this cat as a bobcat. The panther, Fells concolor, is a beast of many names, most frequently referred to in New Hampshire history as catamount, but sometimes known locally as "Indian Devil" or "Carcajou", under which . support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. Caller: Hey guys how you doing. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. No doubt in my mind it was. From "History of New Hampshire Game and Furbearers" by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. I mean it wasn't your idea. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. They absolutely do. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. It was some sort of a Lion Mountain Lion animal. You're on the air. Every other Friday on Morning Edition NHPRs Sam Evans-Brown tracks down answers to questions about the environment and outdoors for our listeners in a segment we call Ask Sam.. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. They lived perhaps elsewhere in New England and they were just passing through and happened to have an encounter of some sort. The DNA the DNA that they were able to pull from the cat suggested that it was a dispersed mountain lion that came. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. I've actually had to walk in on one or two now and look at what was going on and figured out what was going on. I hope she's listening and she had spoke to a lot of different people ended up having a couple of sightings of her alone without sort of by accident. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. Peter Biello: We got an e-mail question from Robert in Epsom who asks are sightings or encounters with these big cats less dangerous here where they're passing through than out west where those same mountain lines might be establishing territory Rick. So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. And I just said I saw I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long tail. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. Caller: And the more I thought about it the color of it it was definitely not a bobcat. 19 We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. Residents Report Mountain Lion Sighting By Elysia Rodriguez Published August 11, 2015 A southern New Hampshire neighborhood believes a mountain lion is roaming the woods near their homes. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Women control our lives. However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. Russ, from Sandwich (and Bedford) asks: In Sandwich New Hampshire, everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion. So so they're just a very resilient species and they're pretty they're pretty neat. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. Phone number 1 800. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. So let's let's go to the phones. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. Like why would you want one wildlife. And it was unmistakable. So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. He said matter of fact I do. That's too big for Bobcat. We mentioned that one cat that was hit by a car where it has it that it was a male looking for me. Well within there. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. 1,470 likes. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. Mountain lion or cat running across. Information that weed family automotive dot com sunny for today high temperatures low to mid 80s clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s tomorrow sunny highs in the upper 80s. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. Caller: Hi. Infinite Scroll Enabled. And Rick Van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. So for our scientists to do the lumping and whatnot. Caller: I do. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. So I hate the idea that there's some sort of upward you know downward pressure from the bosses saying Don't you know don't tell about the mountain lions because it'll scare away the tourists. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. By Eric Orff. If so that's for us as an agency. I didn't see him online. I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. It doesn't happen as much anymore. One was in Shelton. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. David Erler says some of them probably have. Right. The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. They just end up in these places. Just. And the cougar embodies that. Caller: Oh yeah. They kill big animals. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. Peter Biello: Well yeah. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. for some excitement. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. You need you need either a really good photograph or you need you know fresh scat that can be sent to a lab out West that can they can be identified there. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. Well let's hear from from Sue Morse again science director for the organization keeping track. But Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence, Right? Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. So I certainly can't dispute anything that they said there's no evidence for me to go by to verify or say what my thoughts are on the situation. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Now again I don't know that there's anything to that. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. 1957. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. Seems reasonable! Caller: Oh hi. Thank you for visiting the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department website. WMUR uLocal: On this trail cam video, an unidentified feline is spotted. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. But I was riding a mountain bike not far from my house. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. I was at the Sentinel as a reporter there for about four years and during that time I probably wrote close to a half dozen stories or so on this topic including a lengthy feature at one point that in which I spoke to several people from around the banana region claimed to have seen mountain lions that at one time or another. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof mountain lions live in the state, yet residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. Good morning guys. So do they. She quotes a biologist in Lyme New Hampshire who who is keeping two mountain lions himself so in the not too distant past in the early nineteen hundreds it was perhaps more common and still in Maine. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. Lots of people have stories about them, people have them on their game cameras I mean its kind of a thing. And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. So I think in that story there's there's something for the believers and the nonbelievers and I and you know Mark L. Brock is who is a gentleman with the cougar Network told me this story is evidence that that if they were here we would know about it. However, dispersing western mountain lions have left evidence as close as Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. For me as a person who's handled many bobcats and looked at many pictures Bobcat the White chin Bobcat right off is what comes out to me and then the black the the roughs on our Bobcats we'll have sometimes have black fringes on them. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. But if people are still seeing mountain lions, why is the state and federal government seeking to COVER IT UP!? So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. Peter Biello: Yeah. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. So it's there was no question in my mind. A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. Patrick Tate: Well I've never seen an Easter cougar so I can't say when I've handled these 10 cougars and whatnot. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. Today, their range stretches from the Yukon Territory in Canada along the western coast of the United States, all the way to the Southern Andes in Chile. John thanks. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. Thank you. Sam Evans-Brown: What he would have stopped as well I think is way way that the reason that mountain lion kept moving is because he wasn't finding anybody. I'm gonna send you a letter that we researched this report and we spoke with those labs and the lab wrote in their letter to us that they could only say that Scott contained white Tea Party fur and that they could not say what deposited the scout because it's far too degraded listeners we'd love to hear from you about your mountain lion sightings if you have seen one or if you if you think you have give us a call we'd love to hear your story 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. But also I think it proves the opposite point which is that sometimes they're pretty secretive because all the way from Minnesota where the where was the first time was picked up on a game camera to New York. Ecosystem Management Consultants of New England, Ask Sam, and recently fielded question about mountain lions, 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020, We also hear excerpts from an interview with, Read about the most recent cougar "sightings".
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