As you tighten the centers ( 108 ) the same engine will make MORE power through the mide range and top end. I bet you won't see a bit of difference. Well get out of that stocker and build a hipo motor for your VW. That is no accident. Exhaust reversion is another undesirable side effect that can be caused by overlap. This causes the engine's street manners and tuning to become fickle. 1966 Toyota Landcruiserunder construction. Widening their separation angle helps increase upper rpm power output. Once more the engine came apart to install the third test cam, a 107 LSA. Anybody do any real testing on LSA in a 3.75 stroke small block chevy?I have always used 104-106 and was thinking about trying a 108 or 110 design.I know there is a lot of variables but just a general opinion from any experts.This is for motor only no nitrous.600-640 HP engine combos.Much appreciated! But this is not the only reason. pump gas, no additive's as well, runs good, i will put the highest octane in, which is 93.. The 402-inch LS2/LS3 hybrid stroker started out with an LS2 aluminum block. Contrariwise, 106 LSA car engines are the best choice for people seeking energy-efficient cars with moderate engine power. (2002) et rappel sur une carte hors texte. by Mr. P. Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:36 pm, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited, General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track. Professionally ported & polished iron 4V head with titanium intake valves, stainless exhaust, titanium retainers & keepers & dual springs. Also, the wider LSA contributes to chassis stability in drag racing by avoiding the delivery of a ferocious blast of power that would break tire traction. If identical and for a given displacement the 110 will give more power. Lobe Separation Angle, or LSA, is the number of degrees that separate the peak lift points of the cam's intake and exhaust lobes. Do you like to go fast? A 112-114 degree lobe center will have a better idle and produce more vacuum with less overlap. Depending on the engine combination, the opposite results can occur. What Is the SBC Header Bolt Torque? On the cranking. 13 The three power curves indicate that the wide (120-degree) LSA (green lines) lost considerable torque to the other two cams. 110 LSA: On the other hand, 110 LSA is a wider LSA with almost no overlap. A narrower lobe separation angle can provide less power but can also lead to less wear. A good amount of idle vacuum or increased idle vacuum found at 110 LSA advances the engines efficiency. Come join the discussion about popular models such as the Mustang, Galaxie, Falcon, Fairlane, Torino, Shelby and many more! 4 Impaired episodic memory and semantic knowledge are common in TLE, although dysexecutive traits . Most cars use more than, Read More Does It Matter Which Ignition Coil Goes Where? On the surface, the camshaft's job is simpleopen and close the valvesbut beyond that topical description, it's one of the most mysterious and misunderstood engine components. by xstfudonniex Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:21 pm, Post It is an important note you must keep; due to the lobe separation angle, there creates an overlapping of intake valve opening time and exhaust valve closing time and vice versa. A wider lobe separation angle can often provide more power, but it can also lead to more wear on the engine. After consulting with many experts, you are still in confusion between 106 and 110- lobe separation angles. I wouldn't assume 4 links fuel requirements will mirror yours at all. Lobe separation angle does. Also present during testing was a set of 1 7/8-inch Kooks headers, Comp hydraulic roller lifters, and F-body oil pan. Turbochargers are not as simple as they may sound; you may think of them only as power-boosting components. Another important measurement was the torque production at 4,000 rpm and this cam checked in with 484 lb-ft of torque. More than any other component, the cam profile determines things like idle quality, mileage, and overall driveability. All testing was performed with an Aeromotive fuel pump feeding a set of 42-lb/hr injectors. A tighter LSA is always going to have more overlap, which allows the exhaust and intake systemif they're tuned wellto work together.". The same is true for intake valve closing. If you look at the cam card, you will find a maximum lift column on the card.Now, all you have to do is, add up the two mentioned maximum angles and divide the summation by 2. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. To illustrate the differences offered by changes in the LSA, we had Crane cams grind us three cam profiles that shared the same lift and duration figures, but differed only in the LSA. Cam and Lifters, Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 282/288, Lift .589/.600, Chevy, Big Block, Kit. The 110 is probably a better choice for a performance street engine. You get a better idle, vacuum, and response from a 112o-114o lobe. I also like the 106 lobe separation with the intake on 103. On larger displacement units 116 to 118 degrees of separation are common. I know a little about cams. The taller lobe seperation will have a longer powerband but will have to rev higher to make the power than the lower lobe seperation! 2023 Power Automedia. by ANT Thu May 15, 2003 6:44 pm, Copyright 2022, S&S Motorsports LLC, All Rights Reserved - Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. FWIW. You cannot look at just the LCA without looking at other specs too. Lobe seperation cant be seperated from duration,the 2 are connected.the old duntov cam had a lot less duration than many new cams so the valve overlap was not extreme and the engine ran with a gentle lope.Increase the duration by 20* and this cam would shake a 283 out of the car at idle,but then increase the lobe seperation by 4* and the motor will have a gentle lope again. 292S-112: 292/292 - 240/240 - .495/.495 - 112* - 3400-7200. The standard bore block was then stuffed with a 4340 forged steel 4.0-inch crank and 6.125-inch rods, along with a set of flat-top, forged JE pistons. Either learn to fix it, or learn to write checks. Generally, naturally aspirated engines run narrower lobe separation angles of around 106 to 108 whereas supercharged, turbo or nitrous engines operate with 112 to 114 and higher. 2.1.3 Transponder reply modes (air-to-ground) 2.1.3.1 Transponders shall respond to Mode A interrogations in accordance with the provisions of 3.1.1.7.12.1 and to Mode C interrogations in accordance . music to your ears? However, finding them might be challenging if you dont have any prior knowledge. I've seen a few comments in threads on here that have said things like "going to the 112LC from the 108LC gives 4lbft more torque at the bottom and 2bhp more at the top" yet this would seem to go against what webcam say on. 4-linked72, what cam are you using that has a 108 LSA? by bug1914 Tue May 13, 2003 2:56 am, Post What Are The Wastegate Stuck Open Symptoms? A lower efficient compression rate leads to a higher fuel consumption rate by your engine to produce higher power. But i would nt go any wider than 110. LSA helps determine the cam's behavior; you can take a given set of lift and duration figures, change the LSA, and get cams with vastly different characteristics. Come here to talk with others who like to drive fast. As a result, a wider valve opening system with no overlapping allows more oil to fall through the oil inlet. Increased overlap improves upper RPM power. NOTE: Classic Inlines stocks the above profiles in 108, 110, and 112 lobe centers. Because during the lower units oil change, you can go through the issue that the lower plug, Read More Yamaha Lower Unit Drain Plug Size [Explained Everything]Continue, Among the crucial parts of a vehicle ignition system is the ignition coil, also called a spark coil. A cam with a 112lobe center will idle smoother than a cam with a 110lobe center. So, sit tight back and explore. When boost or nitrous are introduced, and engine builders contemplate choices between single-, dual- or reverse-pattern camshafts then the discussion gets muchmore technical. Hopefully it turns out great. The engine would idle a lot rougher and generate worse exhaust emissions largely because of unburned fuel.. Fixing the ignition coils is essential when you experience issues like engine misfire and the Check Engine light that wont go off. Its also critical that valve overlap is kept to a minimum as the induction system can create a suction that pulls water into the motor, adds Bolander. I had a 110 cam in my beetle and I didn't like it-the bottom end was doggy. How To Properly Replace Ignition CoilsContinue. It produces peak torque earliercoming on quicker and strongerbut also it falls off quicker too. With a 108 degree lobe center, a cam will have a rougher idle and produce less vacuum due to more overlap. The idle quality was better with the 112-degree LSA but not as good as the wider 120-degree cam.The ultra-wide 120-degree LSA lost low-speed power and never recovered, but know that this wide LSA is often beneficial on positive displacement, supercharged applications. The 234o duration kind of eliminates the RV usage. I have Crane hydraulic link bar style roller lifters, so I dont have to use the spider style. The intake lobe centerline is measured in crankshaft degrees. by trmnatr Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:45 pm, Post Now here is where it gets tricky. As the RPM's go up this is not as critical as the higher velocity of the air/fuel moving thru keeps it from getting contaminated. These numbers can vary a few inches one way or the other, depending on several other aftermarket factors and your individual engine specifications, so you may want to check your vacuum once the cam is installed. The 108-degree cam (blue lines) outperformed the other two, but idle quality suffered. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. It is the average centerline between both lobes and expressed in degrees ranging from 95 on the extremely narrow/tight side to upward of 120 on the wide end. that is why people running 112 or 114 lobe centres retard the cam ,that way the exhaust event is back were it was before .this helps in exhaust valve tempatures--anyway today i talked too barry who is the owner of shadbolt cams and we talked about cam lobe centres -he considers 108 centre quite narrow and for a very narrow power band operation ,with a 112 he figures with the carbs with straight & even runs at the valves there should be no noticable loss of low end power, a 112 lobe would be a great choice for a great street strip motor -better lower torque followed with a flatter rising torque curve as well as rpm range extended 500-700 rpm -. The graph above compares intake valve closing points of the three cams used in the test. However, a cam with 108 will only pull 12-16", which is not enough for power assisted accessories. by Hoxviii Mon May 12, 2003 7:50 pm, Post Not a HUGE, but a significant difference between 110 and 112, but those are the trends. Ultimately, it comes down to how you want the engine to run, the car's intended purpose, and what you are willing to tolerate. Yearh, I have been reading a lot about this issue. LS Exhaust Manifold Bolt Torque (Everything You Need To Know), Holley Power Valve Sizes: Everything There is to Know. It is the DESIGNED events that yield CENTERLINE. It may not display this or other websites correctly. by jim martin Mon May 12, 2003 7:10 pm, Post by Marc Mon May 12, 2003 11:38 am, Post The lobe separation angle is a comprise of what the engine needs depending on the compression, combustion chamber, rpm, engine size, head volume, and many, many other variables. 11 Doing LS cam swaps on the engine dyno is a breeze, each taking less than 1 hour. Given that nitrous works best in the mid- to upper-rpm range, nitrous-powered engines need a wider lobe separation, like 112 . O onovakind67 Registered Joined Dec 14, 2001 6,242 Posts So, choose the perfect lobe separation angle for your engine, complying with the requirements of your needs. 110 LSA: But, contrarily, at 110 LSA, you dont have to face the problem of engine knocking. 112 vs 114 lobe centers You cannot tell the differance in the two . It idles very well at 650 rpm with a nice lope and runs strong. Aeromotive; 913.647.7300; AeromotiveInc.com, AFR Heads; 661.257.8124; AirFlowResearch.com, Federal Mogul/Felpro; 248.354.7700; FederalMogul.com, Mahle; 248.347.9700; Mahle-Aftermarket.com, Scat Enterprises; 310.370.5501 ScatEnterprises.com, SuperFlow Dynamometers and Flow Benches; 515.254.1654; SuperFlow.com. We do not stock profiles with 109 or 114 lobe centers. For example, an oval-track small-block that needs to motivate the car off the turns quickly might have a narrow LSA of around 106 degrees, resulting in more overlap. It should still make close to 600hp and 600tq in my 512" stealth headed big block. 4-Link72, do you run racing gas or pump with 10.5:1 CR? The engine will have weak performance in the low-end range.A low vacuum can also cause the brake pedal to be quite difficult to press. But to choose the perfect cam, all of that information needs understanding. Pretty much standard for an RV type cam. Camshaft: Hydraulic Roller, Comp Cam custom grind (ADV Duration 281-287,@ .050 230-236, lift 622I & 625E w/1.6 rockers.) I have used some cut on a 110 that worked well too, but they never sounded as good as the tight ones. by lazaris Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:18 pm, Post The absence of engine knocking ensures that your car engine is reasonably combusting the fuel. Realize what the engine is going in, however, as you may not be able to use the wildest cam out there. 106 LSA: On the contrary, if we look at the 106 LSA, we will find it more advantageous and energy efficient than the 110 LSA engine. Retarding the camshaft (a higher intake lobe centerline number 108 vs. 104) will generally start the power band later in the RPM range and decrease the cylinder pressure. A wider lobe center will give you more overall torque (comes in earlier and stays later). With minimal overlap and a steady manifold vacuum signal, they work great with fuel-injection systems and are the norm on modern pushrod engines, such as the LS and Gen III hemi. While lift and duration are most often discussed when talk turns to cam timing, there is a third variable that has a decided effect on both power and personality. This table will create a map in your head, and I bet it will make your understanding crystal clear. You can research your heads to find out where yours are, but honestly I don't think it will be worth the effort on a tow vehicle. I believe you have got the idea of what you were seeking. Looking at 108vs. It's wet flow tested at 690cfm. Valve lift will bear weight in any decision regarding LSA. I'd run it, just be sure to check valve to piston clearance, coil bind and retainer to guide boss/seal clearance. Here are the basics: higher lift values open the valves to increase airflow and longer duration keeps the valves open longer. So the wider LSA introduces a broader and therefore longer torque band.. I've seen that Webcam cams can be ordered with either of the above. whats the difference in how the car will run. The 120-degree cam minimized torque production through most of the curve, while the 112-degree cam offered more torque but slightly less peak power. Build your own custom newsletter with the content you love from EngineLabs, directly to your inbox, absolutely FREE! Lobe Separation Angle "LSA "Jump to Latest Follow 1 - 17 of 17 Posts . by ANT Mon May 12, 2003 1:47 pm, Post The other thing is that you need to tune your ignition advance to maximize your performance. Pontiac 326 Vs Chevy 327 Differences & Similarities. Unfortunately, good street manners are often at odds with performance, as wilder cam timing usually decreases idle and (low-speed) driveability. A cam with a 112 lobe center will idle smoother than a cam with a 110 lobe center. Our content is merely suggestive, not intended to use without proper safety precautions and advice. A 110-degree lobe separation angle means that the peak opening points of the intake and exhaust lobes are 110 degrees apart. Thanks. Mechanical aspects like maximum torque, narrower powerband, higher cranking compression rate, efficient compression rate, effective EGR effect, and lower oil consumption rate increase the car engines efficiency and make it energy efficient. It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong. Really wide lobe separation angles are used in boosted applications. For your convenience, I am providing a comparison table to give you an overall idea about the comparison. Noah knows a lot about whats happening in the car industry with the latest piloting productions thanks to his professional experience. It made 472.4 lb-ft at peak, a 21.5lb-ft disparity from the 101 cam. The 108-degree cam offered both the most power and torque, but idle quality suffered compared to the wider LSAs. 12 In terms of power production, the stroker LS3 performed best with the tightest lobe separation angle. Okay, have a sigh because you have opened the right door. In the 106 LSA, the engine can reach the maximum torque, making the driving more efficient and saving energy. Introduction.
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